To Negotiate Better, Delivery with Yourself
The coauthor of the everyday e book Attending to Yes has unique advice on the appropriate technique to barter, designed for an global that feels more conflicted than ever. William Ury, cofounder of Harvard’s Program on Negotiation, has come to learn that the supreme obstacle in a negotiation is recurrently yourself—no longer your opponent. Ury, who additionally coined the term BATNA, explains the latest thinking from his evaluate and consulting. He shares his tried-and-correct ideas for overcoming yourself to barter better outcomes at work and in existence. Ury wrote the unique e book Doable: How We Continue to exist (and Thrive) in an Age of Warfare.
CURT NICKISCH: Welcome to the HBR IdeaCast from Harvard Exchange Overview. I’m Curt Nickisch.
When used to be the final time you ready for a negotiation? Perchance it used to be figuring out the appropriate technique to procure a mission performed with a coworker. Perchance it used to be negotiating a super bewitch, perchance one thing more mighty in world alternate or global family members. Chances are high, whereas you did prepare, you are going to also properly possess spent more time and energy mad by the opposing event than you did about yourself. At the original time’s customer speaks from a long and storied profession in excessive stakes negotiations, and he says too continually, our greatest obstacle is ourselves.
William Ury is a cofounder of the Harvard program on negotiation. He co-wrote the influential 1981 e book, Attending to Yes. He has performed a position in peace negotiations, mediated talks between estranged alternate companions, and educated infinite executives and managers on easiest practices. Thru all that, he has realized that gaining standpoint on yourself is an underutilized and extremely efficient tool, in particular now in an global that appears to be like to be in extra polarizing warfare than ever.
His latest e book is Doable: How We Continue to exist and Thrive in an Age of Warfare. William, enormous to possess you on the level to.
WILLIAM URY: Oh, it’s a enormous pleasure, Curt.
CURT NICKISCH: I possess to originate by asking the formula you watched about warfare, due to I enjoy so many folks aloof call to mind it as a negative, upsetting thing.
WILLIAM URY: Yes. And I aged to think the identical method myself, Curt, however I used to be educated firstly as an anthropologist sooner than I went into the world of negotiation. And as an anthropologist, I came to worship that warfare is fully very necessary to change, to enhance, to evolution, to how we as americans and organizations originate.
And the sole choices continually result from surfacing a form of aspects of consider, getting all americans’s solutions on the table, and then taking a see for an answer that in actual fact incorporates the a form of views. It’s truly at the guts of a shiny democracy, healthy warfare is. It’s at the guts of a healthy marriage. It’s at the guts of healthy alternate in the rep of alternate opponents. It truly is crucial.
So in that sense, oddly ample, even supposing we dwell on this age of accelerating warfare, in a comic sense, I’d tell we truly need more warfare, no longer less, however more of the healthy style. And the main selection that we face isn’t any longer about whether or no longer to build away with warfare or no longer, it’s how attain we take care of it? Enact we take care of it destructively via fights, via complaints, via boardroom battles, via labor strikes? Or attain we take care of it constructively via creative, positive negotiation?
CURT NICKISCH: As you real talked about now and you write about to your unique e book, Doable, the world appears to be like more conflicted than ever, in all probability due to we all possess so rather more procure admission to to every a form of particular person on this planet who thinks otherwise than us or who wants the identical sources as us. In quite loads of methods, a digitally related world has brought our variations into stronger relief. Has warfare gotten more difficult to your skills?
WILLIAM URY: I imagine so. The a form of thing that I enjoy that’s going on on this planet of alternate and in society in total is that the rep of resolution-making has shifted over the final 30 or 40 years from more high down, the particular person on the high gives you orders and the of us on the backside be conscious the orders, to more horizontal resolution making the put all americans will get alive to. And what which suggests is there’s rather more negotiation, there’s rather more warfare, and we possess to figure that out. That’s why I enjoy negotiation might per chance very properly be one in every of the very high core competencies for any chief this camouflage day.
CURT NICKISCH: And it sounds love due to of the altering energy structure of these conflicts at the original time, it sounds love negotiation has to change too?
WILLIAM URY: It’s correct. And as you talked about at the high, the item that I’ve realized, in all probability the lesson that doubtlessly realized most strikingly in the years since writing Attending to Yes, is that in actual fact the supreme obstacle to getting what I need in a negotiation isn’t any longer what I enjoy it is. It’s no longer the sophisticated particular person or organization on the a form of side of the table. It’s the particular person on this side of the table, it’s me. It’s our possess natural, very understandable, very human tendency to react, which is to act without thinking. Because the mature announcing goes, “Can possess to you’re wrathful, you are going to assemble the sole speech you are going to ever remorse.” You are going to ship the sole email you are going to ever remorse. And the flexibility to hunch our current reaction is extreme if we’re going with a opinion to approach our pursuits in a negotiation.
CURT NICKISCH: What’s it about no longer figuring out themselves that of us procure putrid now as they prepare for negotiation or stumble on warfare?
WILLIAM URY: Yeah, I enjoy the supreme thing is… I mean, what I ask because the root of successful negotiation at the second is the flexibility to step encourage from the anguish for a second. It’s nearly as whereas you’re negotiating on a stage. You’re on the stage, the a form of avid gamers are on the stage, etc. Your mind goes to a psychological and emotional balcony, overlooking the stage. A verbalize of aloof, a verbalize of standpoint, a verbalize the put you are going to also support your eyes on the prize and ask the larger image. And what I acquire this camouflage day is the formula that we’re communicating with texts and email, real the entire lot coming in the total time at us, it makes us hyperreactive. And social media tends to abet that. And negotiation is-
CURT NICKISCH: Yeah, rewards it.
WILLIAM URY: What we need this camouflage day is that capability to… That balcony time, it’s that point to location up that you had been bringing up earlier. What I acquire so continually in negotiations, in particular in conflicts and disputes, is of us act in methods that bolt exactly contrary to their possess pursuits.
Let me give you an instance. A vary of years ago, I used to be brought in to again a alternate chief in Brazil who had based with his father, Brazil’s most successful outlets, a terribly huge company, 150,000 workers. He used to be in a enormous fight with the a form of enormous shareholder over administration of the company. And on the outside, it looks love it used to be all on the external factors, love the numbers love, “Okay, how grand stock are we going to procure?” All those things. But in the stop, it turned out to be internal.
When I met with my client, whose title used to be Abilio, and grew to turn real into a accurate friend, I requested him, “Abilio, I don’t know if I can again you, however thunder me what is it exactly that you truly need out of this negotiation?” And he, love every accurate alternate chief, had his record ready. He wanted a huge sum of stock. He wanted the elimination of the three or non-compete clause. He wanted the company headquarters, he wanted the company sports activities team. He had a record of about six things. Those had been his positions, the things he said he wanted.
Then I said, “Abilio, thunder me one thing. You’re a particular person that appears to be like to possess the entire lot. What attain you truly need?” And he paused for a second. And at final in a reflective tone, he said, “ what I need? I need liberdade.” Which in Portuguese potential, “I need my freedom.” And the formula he said freedom, I understood. That used to be at the encourage of the verbalize, the things that he said he wanted. What did he truly need most of all used to be freedom. It’s that underlying need, that underlying driver that used to be driving him.
And that in actual fact had specific resonance for him due to a vary of years earlier, he’d been kidnapped truly as he’d been leaving his house by a community of city political gorilla gang and held in a coffin for per week no longer incandescent if he used to be going to dwell on. So freedom truly supposed one thing to him.
So I said to him, “Successfully, what would you attain along with your freedom? What does truly freedom truly mean to you?” And he said on this case, he said, “Successfully, freedom truly potential time to utilize time with my household, which is the largest thing in my existence. And freedom to assemble the affords, the alternate affords that I love to assemble.”
After we got to the backside of what he truly wanted, which is what you attain, then truly it turned out to be grand simpler to address the dispute. But what I realized then and there used to be that the supreme obstacle for him because it is for all of us is ourselves, is our tendency to procure reactive. And when we’re reactive, we don’t truly heart of attention. We don’t truly drill all of the formula down to what we truly need out of that negotiation. And unless you are going to also attain that, then you’re no longer going to procure it.
CURT NICKISCH: I used to be thinking loads about one phrase that I’ve heard only in the near previous as I used to be reading your e book, and that’s “failure of imagination.” That’s one thing that of us continually aged to record a anguish that’s deplorable and of us didn’t know how grand worse it can per chance per chance per chance procure and didn’t prepare for it. You writing about Doable additionally made me consider failures of imagination – about how things might per chance very properly be or how accurate things might per chance very properly be if we procure out of rep of seeing the anguish in a formula. Can you talk a exiguous bit more about your philosophy of possibility?
WILLIAM URY: Yeah. I’ve now spent about 45 years wandering the world as a negotiator. And of us continually request from me, “So after all this, William, are you an optimist or are you a pessimist?” And what I now opt to declare is fully I’m a possibilist. In a form of phrases, I imagine in human possibility. I’ve viewed it with my possess eyes. I’ve viewed of us remodel conflicts, whether or no longer it’s in the alternate sector or in the political sector, or for that subject at house; taking conflicts which can per chance per chance very properly be apparently no longer doable and switch them around. As a result of continual, patient, creative, positive negotiation the put of us had the imagination, as you talked about, to imagine unique probabilities, unique methods of being with every a form of. It didn’t mean by the method that the warfare essentially ended, however the battle did. The antagonistic battling become positive negotiation, dialogue, democracy, etc.
CURT NICKISCH: So let’s discuss the appropriate technique to originate on this path of possibility for yourself in a warfare or negotiation, per chance with a concrete instance from the alternate world that can per chance per chance again of us image this. Let’s tell you’re a company that’s searching out for to non-public one other firm. What can you attain to position yourself “on the balcony” as you set it?
WILLIAM URY: Successfully, what I’ve continually came upon truly curiously in talking with alternate leaders and managers is that I ask them, I tell, “Imagine your most inviting negotiations. If there are two styles of negotiations, the external negotiations with of us, a form of organizations – love a merger negotiation and the internal negotiations with of us to your possess team, to your possess side, within your possess organization, which individually attain you acquire more problematic?” And curiously, the overwhelming majority of hands bolt up for the internal negotiations.
CURT NICKISCH: Yeah, the of us you’re supposed to have confidence, accurate?
WILLIAM URY: Precisely, the of us that you’re supposed to be all aligned with. And so I’d tell that one truly necessary allotment of preparation of time on the balcony and making ready for that merger is to assemble obvious that you might perchance per chance per chance per chance possess those internal talks, which of course are internal negotiations: guaranteeing you are going to possess alignment, guaranteeing that of us communicate up now and elevate your variations somewhat than that come up later on in the midst of the merger negotiations or in the midst of the merger and stop up unraveling things in methods that you hadn’t imagined.
CURT NICKISCH: Are there current questions you want of us to ask themselves or workout routines you are going to also attain to rep of pull yourself encourage, step encourage and procure that standpoint on yourself and the anguish?
WILLIAM URY: I opt to ask, I call it the five why direct, which is… Successfully, I’ll give you an instance. I used to be talking with a gross sales chief for huge application company. And he used to be announcing to me, “What I truly possess a anguish with is announcing no to prospects who support on wanting these very custom-made choices. And then that charges us somewhat a pair of cash and time. And I real possess bother announcing no due to it’s the client.”
And so I requested him, “So properly, thunder me then why attain you want to possess to declare no?” And he said, “Successfully, it’s revenues. We possess to retain our revenues.” So I said, “Yeah, okay, I got that, however why attain you want to possess to possess revenues?” And he said, “Successfully, I possess to assemble a income. For sure, we possess to assemble a income.” So I tell, “Successfully, why attain you want to possess to assemble the income?” And then he said, “Successfully, so that we can dwell on as a company.” “Successfully, why attain you want to possess to dwell on as a company?” “Successfully, so we can all possess jobs.” “Why attain you want to possess to all possess jobs?”
“So I can place meals on my household table,” he said to me a more or less in an irate negate. But drilling down, I said, “Successfully, the following time you’re in entrance of a customer, consider it this method. You’re no longer real retaining income, you’re putting meals to your loved ones’s table. And that gives you the energy and the self belief with a opinion to declare no and support to that no.”
So in a form of phrases, drilling all of the formula down to what we truly need. It’s nearly love an iceberg. The positions are the allotment of the iceberg that’s above the water. What’s below the water? Drill all of the formula down to those current human wants of freedom or putting meals to your loved ones’s table. Those are the drivers. And in the event you’re making ready for that, truly think those via. Be obvious that that you understand what those are, no longer real for you however for the a form of of us in the organization. Attributable to in any negotiation, there’s no longer real the one table of you negotiating the merger with the a form of company. There’s an internal table.
CURT NICKISCH: At what level is it important to ponder what the a form of particular person or your opponent or negotiating accomplice what they wish or need? How attain you attain that in a approach that’s no longer reacting to them or projecting, however somewhat about exploring probabilities?
WILLIAM URY: Successfully, I enjoy, again, in the event you’re making ready, when you’ve truly drilled down and came upon out what your pursuits are, it’s equally necessary then to drill down and ask the identical questions about the a form of side. Attributable to negotiation is an direct in influence. In the event you’re searching out for to influence the a form of side, whereas you’re searching out for to change their mind, you want to know the put their mind is. You would possibly per chance possess to clutch what they care about. That appears to be like to be extreme. So there’s a more or less two-step here, which is, hearken to yourself first, truly figure out what you want to possess, and then attain the specific same thing for the a form of side.
CURT NICKISCH: You additionally tell it’s necessary to sluggish down. When attain you attain that?
WILLIAM URY: Opinion to be one of doubtlessly the most important units I am going by in negotiation is, whereas you want to possess to transfer immediate, bolt sluggish. Attributable to on this existence, on this planet, we’re searching out for to transfer very, very immediate. But by the usage of negotiation, human minds don’t switch straight. It’s a exiguous bit love companies bolt in, they ask a market opportunity, they’re announcing, “Okay, properly let’s assemble a plant. Let’s straggle in there.”
And they’re in this form of straggle that they don’t consult the native of us and they don’t consult who’s no longer at the table, who’s being alive to by this. And then they acquire to their surprise that the native of us starts to location up and they opt it to court docket or they scream or whatever. And then it appears to be like that the plant takes longer to assemble in the long bustle. So the flexibility to more or less sluggish down with a opinion to transfer immediate appears to be like to be key.
CURT NICKISCH: What possess you viewed work properly in helping you procure your negotiating accomplice, your opponent, to step to the balcony themselves and procure away from their positions and think more about their pursuits and what they truly need?
WILLIAM URY: The most bright method I know to again the others bolt to the balcony, due to that’s additionally necessary, is to listen. We call to mind negotiation as talking. We continually record negotiation as talks, however truly in my skills, negotiation is fully more about listening. And doubtlessly the most successful negotiators I know listen method over they talk. Attributable to when we’d hearken to the a form of side, when we ask them accurate questions, originate-ended questions, empathetic inquiries to take a look at out and understand what’s occurring, what are we doing? We’re signaling appreciate. We’re seeing them, we’re listening to them.
And in the event that they’re more or less in an anxious mode, I know of us are in a negotiation, they’re anxious, they’re afraid, they’re wrathful, they’re distrustful – they originate to kick again due to they truly feel heard. And so listening is doubtlessly the most underrated instrument of influence that we possess. And the more or less listening I’m talking about isn’t any longer the present more or less listening the put we’re listening within our sneakers, we’re listening to them. We’re listening to their phrases and we’re announcing, “I have confidence that. I don’t have confidence that.”
CURT NICKISCH: Yeah. “And I’m ready to assemble a degree about that.”
WILLIAM URY: Yeah, exactly.
CURT NICKISCH: “I’m ready to argue that.”
WILLIAM URY: We’re listening in describe to retort or to react. Now I’m talking about the more or less listening the put the highlight strikes from the put you are going to also very properly be to the put they are. We’re listening no longer from within our standpoint. We’re listening from within their standpoint. We’re putting ourselves of their sneakers. We’re searching out for to realise what is it that in actual fact drives them? What’s it that they’re truly mad about? What are they jumpy about? And when we can attain that, we uncover that we’re critically better ready to every place a reference to them, however then we’re ready to influence them due to all americans knows exactly what they’re mad about.
CURT NICKISCH: You use the analogy of constructing a bridge, constructing a golden bridge for a successful negotiation to your e book. Can you record that in honest how we might per chance aloof consider that?
WILLIAM URY: The anguish in negotiation is that in particular when things procure tricky, what we tend to attain is we tend to make a selection out a verbalize and we dig into it. And then every side starts to push the a form of to change their verbalize. And naturally, the more you push, what does the a form of side most ceaselessly attain? They spark off, accurate?
What I acquire successful negotiators doing is the specific reverse of pushing, which is they entice. It’s nearly as in case your mind is in one verbalize, accurate? Their mind might per chance very properly be in a fully a form of verbalize. It’s inviting for them to transfer to the put you want to possess them to transfer. It’s nearly love there’s a huge chasm or a canyon in between the put you are going to also very properly be and the put they are. And that canyon is corpulent of dissatisfaction, unmet wants, distrust.
Our job as a negotiator, and here’s inviting, is to leave for a second the put our thinking is, transfer over to the put they are and originate the conversation from the put they are, how they ask the anguish, and then proceed to assemble them a bridge over that canyon, over that chasm of dissatisfaction. In a form of phrases, assemble it as easy as most likely for them to transfer in the course you want to possess them to transfer.
Oftentimes in a posh negotiation, instinctively, we’re searching out for to assemble it more difficult for them. Indubitably, our job is to assemble it simpler for them, simpler for them to assemble the resolution we’d love them to assemble. That’s the art of constructing them a golden bridge.
CURT NICKISCH: There are some things in the e book that you write about that had been unique to me or doubtlessly no longer properly-identified tactics and issues, and I real possess to ask you a pair of few of those. How does the root of web hosting educate in a alternate context?
WILLIAM URY: Yeah, I’d tell I understand there’s one thing that we as human beings all know the appropriate technique to attain. All americans knows the appropriate technique to host any individual who’s a customer. We host any individual, we welcome them. We assemble them truly feel relaxed. The most bright thing we can attain is host the occasions, host the warfare, talk with them. Rob one in every of the occasions or every of them aside and tell, “Howdy, let me hearken to you. What’s occurring here?” Support them aloof down, again them bolt to the balcony, because it had been.
Correct that straightforward thing of welcoming them, welcoming the warfare somewhat than warding off it and real tiptoeing around it, witnessing the warfare, that alone creates an environment which truly is conducive then to positive anguish fixing. You would possibly assemble the stipulations, you are going to also lift of us collectively. Any individual of us as a supervisor, as a leader, we’re continually, whereas you watched about it, informally mediating. And somewhat a pair of mediating, it potential welcoming, turning in opposition to the warfare somewhat than warding off it and hoping it’s going to transfer away.
CURT NICKISCH: You coined the term BATNA in that e book Attending to Yes. And that’s truly become the present in negotiations of all kinds at the original time. Maintain your views on that modified at in every single put the course of your profession?
WILLIAM URY: Yeah. BATNA, which Roger Fisher and I coined encourage in Attending to Yes stands for easiest more than a few to a negotiated settlement. It’s an acronym. It’s what’s your easiest method of action for fulfilling your pursuits. If for some reason you’re no longer ready to prevail in settlement, it’s your thought B. That’s a extreme ask that you ask yourself, again, in the event you’re on the balcony, in the event you’re making ready.
And somewhat a pair of of us face up to mad by their BATNA due to they enjoy of it as negative thinking, and they don’t possess to ponder it as negative thinking, however it surely’s truly more than a few traipse thinking. It’s love, “Okay, alternatively, positively, what am I going to attain?” Return to my friend Abilio. When I requested him, when he said his key purpose, his key ardour used to be freedom, I requested him the ask, which used to be the BATNA ask of, “Who can give you that freedom? Is it most productive the a form of side by settling this deal? In a form of phrases, are you their hostage? Or can you yourself give yourself freedom?” He said freedom to utilize time with his household. I said, “What’s stopping you from spending time along with your loved ones accurate now? What’s stopping you from making the affords you want to possess accurate now?”
And enticing ample, psychologically, by realizing that he himself might per chance per chance meet his underlying wants, he started to kick again more, and that in actual fact allowed us to proceed and assemble the negotiation successful. Ironically, thinking via your BATNA, in my skills over the final years, truly heightens the doable for reaching a accurate settlement.
CURT NICKISCH: Coming encourage to this core opinion of possibility here, it’s bright due to early in the e book, you discuss your grandfather who based a alternate due to he saw alternatives about what used to be most likely, which resulted in improvements of course. And that got me and our producer Mary to mad by how in somewhat a pair of methods many alternate problems are truly about warfare. But unique applied sciences, improvements, unique agencies are born no longer continually from going around that or warding off those conflicts, however truly pushing via that warfare. In the event you utilize the terminology of at the original time, that’s wretchedness aspects, accurate? What can you thunder us about how being a accurate negotiator can additionally real again you in alternate in total?
WILLIAM URY: When I ask of us, “How grand of your time attain you positively utilize negotiating, in a form of phrases, mad by all americans that you negotiate with?” and they are saying, “Successfully, gosh, I negotiate with my coworkers, my board, my colleagues, my workers, the banks, suppliers, prospects.”
And then I ask them, “How grand of your time attain you watched that is?” And what’s amazing is of us originate to think, “Wow, that’s 25% of my time. That’s 50% of my time. That’s 75% of my time. If I had negotiating with myself, it’s 100% of my time.” And we negotiate method over we predict we negotiate in that broader sense of the term, of searching out for to backward and forward conversation, searching out for to procure to the backside of a warfare or a anguish.
And so I’d tell here’s the core competence that we possess to hone, that we truly all possess this natural capability. We real possess to hone it, to learn it, to coach it. And we possess probabilities to coach day-after-day, and that’s how we enhance and better at it. So via true development, that’s how we become champion negotiators. And we’re going to need that in at the original time’s world due to there’s an increasing form of warfare. Warfare is a enhance industry. And negotiation is core to you having with a opinion to assemble what you want to possess to assemble in existence and in alternate.
CURT NICKISCH: William Ury, this has been an proper pleasure to procure to take a look at with you and hear your latest thinking on negotiation. Thanks so grand for coming on the level to to communicate about your work and insights.
WILLIAM URY: It’s a enormous pleasure, Curt.
CURT NICKISCH: That’s William Ury, negotiation expert and creator of the unique e book Doable: How We Continue to exist and Thrive in An Age of Warfare.
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As a result of our team, Senior Producer Mary Dooe, Associate Producer Hannah Bates, Audio Product Manager Ian Fox, and Senior Production Specialist Decide Eckhardt. Thanks for listening to the HBR IdeaCast. We’ll be encourage with a unique episode on Tuesday. I’m Curt Nickisch.
